Weakness in the hind legs?

[Gairlochan]

Now that I have Gypsy for comparison, a possible problem which Kim's always had has become more noticeable; a disinclination to make the effort of jumping up onto or into things (e.g. beds, back of the 4WD etc). Gypsy leaps effortlessly onto my bed and anywhere else within reason, as I have seen RRs do often on YouTube. Kim seems to be capable of jumping, but only if he's very excited or afraid, and I know how it's usual to get an extra surge of strength and energy in extreme situations due to adrenaline etc. Some of you have seen him jumping during play on my YouTube videos of him (search for my channel - Gairlochan - to see them all. I have lots more now of Kim with Gypsy but the sheer quantity has created a bottleneck so there's nothing new up there except one of them on the beach chasing each other, Gypsy's first visit to the beach.)

Back to Kim: at just under 22" he's on the short side for a male RR. In fact, he and Gypsy are the same height, though he's 8Kg/20 lbs heavier and much broader in build). I don't know if they will get any taller, and would be interested in any opinions anyone has on this question (they're nearly eleven months old now). But I digress … again …

Even when Kim was only 4 1/2 months old and the size of a spaniel, he was quite capable of jumping onto the bed and into the back of the 4WD with apparent ease, but has only ever done it once, the first time we took him to the beach and he was very excited indeed. Since then he just stands at the back of the 4WD or the bottom of my bed looking helpless and asking for a lift up which, as he's about 40 Kg/90lb, is getting onerous. I have a box at the bottom of the bed to help him climb, but he still makes very heavy weather of it. It's not a very high bed; it's about shoulder height for him. He often compromises by coming up near where I'm lying and putting his front legs up (which he finds easy) and resting on his elbows and socialising with me, like a man leaning on a bar counter in a pub. It's quite amusing to watch, but it does still worry me; I can't imagine Gypsy being satisfied with that. She'd just flow effortlessly up onto the bed in one fluid motion like water going uphill and that would be that.

I know Kim doesn't have Gypsy's high energy and fast metabolism and that he's still carrying a few extra kilos despite the extra exercise thanks to Gypsy, the reduction in the size of his meals -- he gets no more than her though he's much bigger -- and replacement of some with green beans as suggested by some forum members. But he's got enough energy to play rough and tumble with Gypsy for hours each day and run like a mad thing on the beach, so I'm considering two possibilities: hip dysplasia and/or some sort of specific traumatic incident during puppyhood (e.g. being kicked away hard when he tried to hop up the steps and come inside the house as a puppy).

Gypsy was very scared of even approaching our steps let alone entering our house at first (as Kim had initially also been, though they're both fine now), so it's likely they've both been discouraged by brutal means from coming indoors. Given their mysterious provenance, we'll never know exactly what was done to them, only that it was done to Gypsy for a lot longer yet she's a fine jumper, scorning to use the box and leaping onto my bed with ease and grace.

Kim tends to look worried and pleading if I invite, encourage or command him to jump up onto the bed, and the more I do it the more worried he looks, but he still doesn't even climb up, when it's bad (it's quite variable). Maybe he's worried because he likes being on the bed (no fear of being on the bed or of being in the 4WD at all; he loves car rides) but feels he can't, either for psychological or physical reasons, make it up onto the bed or into the car without considerable effort. When he climbs onto the bed you'd think he was climbing Mt Everest, though sometimes it looks harder, sometimes much easier, but never effortless and never at all without the box to help him.

 The vet checked a ligaments (I don't know the name; I wasn't there. Alan thinks it was the 'cruciate ligament' but he's not sure) in both dogs, and they checked out fine for both dogs. But hip dysplasia is skeletal, as I understand it, and would need an X-ray to diagnose, wouldn't it?

One of the reasons for buying pups from a reputable breeder is that the issue of hip dysplasia is taken seriously, but we didn't have that luxury, and neither did Kim. I can't bear the thought of him becoming crippled and unable to run around the way he does now. I don't know much about the condition except that it seems to be a hip socket which is too open/not concave or enclosed enough. I have a similar problem with my own 'double-jointed' hips, and can dislocate them at will with a pop (it's technically known as subluxing, not dislocation), and I suffer from chronic pain in one and, increasingly, the other as I get older. I wouldn't wish it on a dog, quite literally!

Any ideas, anyone?

[caro]

Hip dysplasia is diagnozed usually by X-ray and it is skeletal.  However, it isn't a death sentence by any means.  I had an 11 year old who suffered from it all his life.  He died of a heart murmur not of anything skeletal though I have to admit walking behind him down a hill was quite painful for me, but he managed very well and never showed any reluctance about going for a walk. 

He used to put his front legs on the bed too and just stand there.  Sometimes, I would put an arm behind his back legs and give him a boost on to the bed, but usually he was quite happy just to sit there with his front legs up on the bed and back on the floor.  As I had seen him jump on and off the pick up truck on numerous occasions, I always thought it was because he was too lazy to make the effort.  My present male does the same thing though he will jump on the bed if he really wants to, but he will just put the front ones on the bed when he is playing with the puppy.  I guess he thinks it is giving him a start when the chase starts!  But his hips are Excellent, so hip dysplasia is not the problem.

I wouldn't worry about Kim unless he begins to show signs of pain, then you will need to get him X-rayed.

Caroline

[Gairlochan]

Hip dysplasia is diagnozed usually by X-ray and it is skeletal.  However, it isn't a death sentence by any means.  I had an 11 year old who suffered from it all his life.  He died of a heart murmur not of anything skeletal though I have to admit walking behind him down a hill was quite painful for me, but he managed very well and never showed any reluctance about going for a walk. 

He used to put his front legs on the bed too and just stand there.  Sometimes, I would put an arm behind his back legs and give him a boost on to the bed, but usually he was quite happy just to sit there with his front legs up on the bed and back on the floor.  As I had seen him jump on and off the pick up truck on numerous occasions, I always thought it was because he was too lazy to make the effort.  My present male does the same thing though he will jump on the bed if he really wants to, but he will just put the front ones on the bed when he is playing with the puppy.  I guess he thinks it is giving him a start when the chase starts!  But his hips are Excellent, so hip dysplasia is not the problem.

I wouldn't worry about Kim unless he begins to show signs of pain, then you will need to get him X-rayed.

Caroline

Thanks Caroline,

That's a relief. He's showing no signs of pain and it's not a problem in itself as it stands. He seems to enjoy leaning on his elbows 'standing at the bar' and will do it for half an hour at a time, with play and cuddles and rolling around from the waist up thrown into the mix. I was just worried that it might be an undiagnosed deformity. I'll keep an eye out for signs of pain, though. How would it manifest itself? He doesn't mind if I push down on his bum (trying to get him to sit, for instance), and it takes a lot of effort -- all my weight sometimes -- to force him to sit if he doesn't want to, whereas I've met dogs with arthritis in their rear leg joints and they just collapse if I stroke them too hard on the rump. Is that how I would detect the presence of pain?

[Skeet]

He may be resisting "a sit" due to discomfort, pain and/or hindquarter weakness.

Personally I'd just let him decide what position is most comfortable for him. 

Regards,
Sandy B.

[caro]

Zack used to do that too.  He would put his weight on his chest and front legs and swing his big head back and forth as you played with him.  He never complained about his hips, but  you could tell when they were bothering him because his gait was even more peculiar than usual.  I wouldn't worry, just think of it as his peculiarity.

By the way, don't push down on his rear to make him sit.  Hold a treat above his nose and move it slowly backward and up so he has to raise his head.  The further back you move the treat, he will want to sit, or move back.  Then you have to put your hand behind his rear just above the hocks and push inward so he has to squat, then as  you feel him going down praise and treat.  He'll learn fast!

Caroline

[Keeper]

yes, food at nose level, over and back as his nose follows...Never push on hips or back.
I use my left arm to 'scoop' under the butt and behind the rear knees - food in right hand at nose.

[Gairlochan]

yes, food at nose level, over and back as his nose follows...Never push on hips or back.
I use my left arm to 'scoop' under the butt and behind the rear knees - food in right hand at nose.

Sandra and Caro,

Thanks so much for this tip. I will definitely try it, as I don't want to put unnecessary pressure on his hips and this sounds like a much easier way of getting him to sit; he's almost too strong for me to push his bum down anyway. Although mostly he sits on command now because Gypsy does and he copies her, which is a great relief as, like you, I was expecting her to be a bad influence.

We were very lucky indeed with her, as she seems to be training Kim better than we could, just by example. Maybe because she's much more mature for her age, and has become dominant over him, he looks up to her or something. I don't know, but there's some pretty good chemistry happening there. We no longer feel as if we're fighting a losing battle with him. He's so much better behaved it's almost miraculous.

A lot of it is just that, having a playmate he can let out all his play-biting, play-fighting and jumping instincts on, he's not frustrated anymore. Training him not to do those things to us is training him to go against his instincts, and when it was just him and us, that meant that the instinctual drives built up into frustration because he couldn't fully be a Ridgeback with us, and those instincts for rough play are very strong; he and Gypsy do it for hours every day.

He's very much more inclined towards obedience now that he doesn't have that build-up of frustrated instincts driving him to be 'bad', and he has completely stopped trying to play-bite or play-fight with us of his own accord, and almost never tries to jump up any more. Everything has just become so much easier with him, and it's no longer a battle of wills. He's no longer a 'problem child'.